Cersaie 2023 Day 2 Meeting Betty Tanddo

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Tilecast news features and analysis brought to you by Diary of a Tile Addict. [00:00:40] Speaker B: All right, day two at CHSi, and we're sitting down with Betty Tando, who is the editor of Tile Today in Australia, a longtime collaborator with Joe Simpson, but this is the first time she's been to the Bologna Tile Fair. So. Hi, Betty. Lovely to see you. What are you making at Chsai? [00:01:00] Speaker C: Hi, Jo. Yeah, really good to meet face to face for the first time. Yeah, it's overwhelming. I'd say for the first day, it was just the waves of people that come in at you and just the amount of tile that you see for me is overwhelming because there's not a show like this in Australia, definitely, and it's the first one I've been to for Tile in Europe. So, yeah, huge, overwhelming. [00:01:32] Speaker B: And what's your plan? How are you going to break down your week here and what are you hoping to get out of it? [00:01:40] Speaker C: Mainly to make direct connections with some of the manufacturers coming from Australia. We don't have a lot of connection, direct connection with manufacturers. So what I did, part of my planning coming to Chassail was to email a lot of manufacturers that I know have brands in the Australian market and told them that I was coming to Chassail and hopefully we could just meet up for a chat. And a reasonable number replied to me. So I've just been following them up and have made that a basis for our coverage and what I think will interest Australian readers. [00:02:30] Speaker B: Are you concentrating then on the European brands, Italian and Spanish, or are you just looking at tile brands in general? [00:02:37] Speaker C: Mainly Italian and Spanish, but I will probably visit some Turkish manufacturers, turkish makers and also one from Abu Dhabi. [00:02:47] Speaker B: Okay, so if we turn your attention to the Australian market, I mean, obviously the UK market has been quite dramatically impacted by coronavirus the lockdown, both in terms of what that's done to tile businesses in the UK and also how it's affected the attitude of specifiers and homeowners. What's been the impact in Australia and is it still happening? [00:03:12] Speaker C: Interesting you should ask that question. We had a similar effect in that when there was lockdown, probably similar in the UK, people looked around their homes and just looked at things that they could improve. So a home improvement market went up and Tile is part of that. But now sort of coming out of that, we're finding there is slowing growth and it's probably returning back to pre COVID levels. So there was definitely a spike over lockdown, but we're finding there is definitely a slowdown now and I think we're going back to a little bit to 2019. Figures. [00:03:59] Speaker B: Okay. One of the things we found in the UK, and I always kind of had Australia in mind when this was happening, was this explosion on what we were kind of terming inside out living. So taking the tiling out of a kitchen, through the new double French doors into a patio or a terrace, and there was an explosion in 20 mil exterior grade tiles in the UK. Has something similar happened in Australia, or were you already there? [00:04:26] Speaker C: I think there was always a trend for outdoor rooms, and tile was definitely part of that. So the extension of the interior going into the outside area and in Australia, there's a huge outdoor lifestyle. So that's a very popular trend. COVID might have contributed to that, but that trend was already there. I don't think COVID triggered it or anything like that, but I think that was part of the spike during Lockdown. That trend continued and I think it will continue. [00:05:00] Speaker B: Okay. One of the other things we found in the UK was that it really drove on some of the online only retailing businesses because people obviously weren't going out, going to shops. They could control their exposure to potentially harmful bugs by buying things on their computer at home, having them delivered, doing the work, and if they were very lucky, finding a tradesman who could do it for them. Socially isolated way. Did the same thing happen in Australia? Has the digital tile market exploded there? [00:05:31] Speaker C: I'm not sure about explosion, but there's definitely growth, I think, in that way of selling tiles. There's definitely some players in that sector, but I think it's still a small percentage of the overall market. I think people still use the bricks and mortar model primarily to sell tiles. I don't know, like I know with Bunnings who sell tiles, they had a lot of their online growth. It peaked a little bit over COVID, but it hasn't grown beyond that. It's sort of come down again. So I don't think in Australia they encourage people to sort of suddenly start selling tile online. [00:06:17] Speaker B: I don't think that happened, but I presume that the online market generally is not as developed as in the UK. I don't think so. [00:06:23] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree. I totally agree. I don't know if there's resistance. There's definitely online shopping, but in the category of tiles and home improvement, I think it's still a small percentage. [00:06:36] Speaker B: So your decision to go digital only with tile today, was that triggered by the coronavirus or was it something you already had planned, just gave you the impetus to do it? [00:06:46] Speaker C: Yeah, print is still around, obviously, but in terms of content, we just felt that the digital delivery and the more frequent delivery of digital information was where we wanted to be. It gives us more opportunities to communicate to the market, to our readers about what's going on. Because prior to creating a digital platform for a child today, it was a quarterly print magazine. And I think there's more happening in the market now that allows for a digital platform. So we are releasing more in newsletters. We still have the digital magazine, but in addition to that, we'll have special editions for shows that you write for us, like Chisel will be a special edition, sidissama will be special edition. Creating opportunities to talk to the market more has really helped us in terms of interest in the market and just informing people. I think there's been more engagement and more well, hopefully I've created more interest in the market. I mean, a quarterly magazine doesn't really say that much. I find that a bit limiting in today's digital way of receiving information. [00:08:07] Speaker B: I used to find the same doing a monthly magazine that anything that was vaguely called news just wasn't. [00:08:15] Speaker C: It just was not. [00:08:16] Speaker B: And we're on a quarterly it's even more. [00:08:18] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I cut out the news section because you can't call it that after every three months. The frequency, I feel like, has expanded interest in what we do. [00:08:31] Speaker B: One thing I have noticed you doing is what I want a better word called surveys. So you take the adhesive market and you literally go through all the different formulations from different band producers so that it's like a buyer's guide. [00:08:45] Speaker C: Yes. [00:08:46] Speaker B: And is that something you're going to be doing more of in the future? [00:08:49] Speaker C: Absolutely. I think for our tile installers, that has been really helpful. And we found that when we put together a guide with brands, it creates awareness for the brands when tile installers are choosing a product. And from our data you can see the multiple links clicks happening. And that's been really good in terms of people who the brands that are part of the guides and obviously the installers who can access all that information in one spot, I mean, that's been really useful for them. That's the feedback I've been getting. [00:09:30] Speaker B: And what about engagement from the architecture and interior design community? How has that been affected? Or what are you doing for that? [00:09:38] Speaker C: Adhesives isn't a huge trigger for that market. It's more what we do in terms of the show reports that you write, some of the more technical articles we try to include like podium titling that interests that market a little bit more. Anything to do with trends, and I think trends is an overused word in Tiling, and I like to have them linked to something real. And something real to me is a show like Chise I think establishes a lot of the trends for the industry. So that's my peg in terms of trends. It's not trends because fundraiser happening again. It's trends because manufacturers are maybe responding to consumers and consumers pushing back for manufacturers to do what they want to do. So that's where I see trends. [00:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah, because certainly our early discussions of the trends we're seeing here amongst the tile addict team suggest that there is actually quite a difference between this year and last year. And it isn't because they stopped making the things they were showing last year, but what they have chosen to put front and center stage this year is very different and I find that quite interesting. And presumably that is also going to be reflective about the effort they're going to put on selling those particular ranges in the next twelve months. [00:11:06] Speaker C: Yes, that whole process of what manufacturers or makers emphasize for each year is fascinating to me because I don't know if they're influencing the market or they're being influenced by consumers saying that this is what they want to have. [00:11:29] Speaker B: One last thing before we move on from the Australian market. When I was first kind of aware of the Australian market, it was really before there had been the massive explosion of Asian installed capacity and then marketing it. So they were buying a lot from Italy, a lot from Spain, Portugal. It was a lot of European things. And then they started to buy from Malaysia and place like that. But that's all changed now, hasn't it? So how do you see what are they going to be, the macro trends affecting where Australians are sourcing their tiles going forward? [00:12:01] Speaker C: Well, the biggest growth we've experienced in terms of imports is India. So Chinese imports still dominate. I mean, they dominate by a large margin, a huge margin. But in terms of growth, we see a lot of product coming from India, I think, because there's improved quality from that country. But interestingly, we've got a feature in the next issue on silicon content and that may I don't know how much that will influence the market, but let's just say low producing or low wage countries have higher content of Silica than places like Spain, Europe, Italy, those kind of things. So, yeah, we'll see how that plays out. But in terms of growth, we're definitely seeing more from India. [00:13:04] Speaker B: So that's the kind of question that Australian tile buyers will ask is Silica content? Because it's one that, I mean, I'm aware of, obviously the issue in relating to conglomerate stones and cutting and that sort of thing, but it's never impacted to me on the tile market. And it's fascinating because Australia is leading. [00:13:24] Speaker C: The way in this area and also we're working with a legal firm just on the legal issues with Silica content. And how they've defined it is whether the illness is acute or chronic. So acute is stonemasons. When you get it, you get it when you get the lung disease. But with Tyler's it's chronic and it's over. It'll be I think it'll be a very big issue in the future, in the near future. [00:14:05] Speaker B: Okay, so this might be a sort of odd question, but are there any differences between the different Australian states, say, between Queensland or New South Wales or South Australia, whatever, in terms of their choice of tile? [00:14:19] Speaker C: Well, I think there are two markets. There's an eastern seaboard and Western Australia that's I think to do more with distribution and transport costs. But also you're talking about the northern part of Australia, which is way hotter than places down south. And I find the Thai market is way more active. Obviously in the hotter in Queensland Northern Territory up in north in sort of the warmer areas of the country is more active. [00:14:59] Speaker B: So per capita usage in Brisbane would be higher than in Melbourne. [00:15:03] Speaker C: Yes. [00:15:03] Speaker B: Wow. Okay. Presumably a lot of this is going outside. Does that mean they're going for lighter tiles that don't hold the heat as much? [00:15:16] Speaker C: I couldn't say. Just data wise, I don't know. But I think there's more activity in the northern part of the country just because actually it also has to do with building approvals and new builds and where that's happening in Australia, that definitely influences the choices of tile and how much tile is being purchased, how much ceramic porcelain tile is being purchased. But I think that in general, there's more activity along Queensland, further up north and the Eastern Seaboard from Sydney upwards. [00:16:01] Speaker B: Interesting. Okay. Right. So now I'm going to wind this up. I'm going to make my ceramic confession here. Janet and I bought a house, a rural house with perhaps the most hideous tiled bathroom I've ever seen. Six by eight inch gloss, black water, splash tiles with white grout. I mean, every day when I use it, I think, god, I cannot live with these tiles another day. But I've lived with them now for eight or nine years, and we are reaching the point when they are going to have to go, have you got a ceramic confession to make? [00:16:38] Speaker C: Well, I think mine's pretty similar. We live in an older building I think was built in the late 50s or early sixty s. And I think the bathroom tiles are from that time. So what was white grout is definitely gray, and the tiles are sort of what I call a slimy green. And I think they're small mosaics and terrible. And I have the same feeling as you do when you look at them. I need to replace them, too. [00:17:15] Speaker B: A slimy green mosaic. It's not sounding good. [00:17:18] Speaker C: That's pretty gross. [00:17:20] Speaker B: Yeah, you've done good. That the Grout's only gray. All right, well, thank you, Betty. Lovely to meet you. Hope you enjoy the rest of the show and hope we carry on driving the tile world forward. [00:17:34] Speaker C: Thank you, Joe. I really enjoyed the chat. Thanks so much. [00:17:38] Speaker A: You've been listening to tilecast produced by Diary of a Tile addict. To ensure you don't miss any future episodes, don't forget to follow us. You can also find show notes and receive updates on newsfeeds articles, podcasts and videos direct to your inbox by subscribing to the Diaryofatiledict.com website. Get the inside track at diaryovatile addict.